Što je to Progressive?

Za stovatelje progresive, o progressive metal bendovima..

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Postby hallowed » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:18

...osjećam se nekako bezidejno...ima li netko za preporučiti bend koji ne možeš utrpati u neki žanr... :D
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Postby dealer » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:26

hallowed wrote:...osjećam se nekako bezidejno...ima li netko za preporučiti bend koji ne možeš utrpati u neki žanr... :D


Da ostanemo u potpuno poznatoj glazbi - Tom Waits?
Je li istina nešto o čemu se demokratski odlučuje?

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom to think, which they seldom use.
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Postby AOR_Crazy » Sun Oct 05, 2008 13:34

hallowed wrote:...osjećam se nekako bezidejno...ima li netko za preporučiti bend koji ne možeš utrpati u neki žanr... :D


Hm... Tuxedomoon, Einsturzende Neubauten, David Ball, The Royal Family & The Poor, nabavi pa slušaj...
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Postby hallowed » Sun Oct 05, 2008 14:20

Image

...moja greška...trebao sam naglasiti ima li netko za preporučiti neki SLUŠLJIVI bend...
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Re: Što je to Progressive?

Postby coprophag » Sun Oct 05, 2008 14:36

niguevara wrote:Malo sam se zamislio nad ovim pitanjem kada sam u nizu interviewa pročitao odbojnost prema ovom žanru... E,sad, stvar je da su intervjuirani ljudi bili 2 autora koja najviše cijenim: Daniel GildenLOVE, i Steven Wilson. Opet kažem,to su u više navrata ponovili. Mislim, svatko ima svoju teoriju o etiketiranju itd. Za nekoga DT predstavlja nešto svemirsko,meni je to tehnički progressive metal! Symphony X i niz ostalih bandova također. To šta je DT dijelom definirao taj žanr je druga stvar...Nemojmo se zavaravati da su ga oni izmislili,Watchtower je prije njih svirao tehničku verziju proga,al dobro,ovdje se
ne radi o DT-u. Uglavnom, navelo me na razmišljanje zašto ta 2 autora izbjegavaju etiketu progressive. Ne izbjegavaju etiketiranje (Daniel voli za pain reći da je to Alternative metal) već samo tu odredjenu etiketu. Progressive bi trebao biti upravo to..progresivan. Mislim da se tokom vremena izgubila bit značenja progressive: sada je progressive sve šta ima duge pjesme,neka bjesna sola itd. Bez obzira na to šta su melodije,rifovi,solaže prožvakane miljun puta prije toga. Pink Floydi su u to vrijeme bili progressive,sada su pop-rock djedice...tako razmišljaju "true" progeri! Meni je upravo suprotno: Floydi su izvorna progresiva! Probili su granice razmišljanja,plivali uzvodno kad su pisali pjesme...To je za mene definicija proga... bez obzira imao album jedan ili 15 sola,trajale pjesme 3 ili 33 minute. Tom logikom je Pain of Salvation (trenutno) pravi progressive band. Kažem trenutno jer sam se opekao na primjeru DT-a. Nadam se da se to Danielu i momcima neće dogoditi (imamo razloga vjerovati)...Vjeru u to mi uljeva način na koji Daniel govori:

"You’ve been accused of being too intellectual about your song-making and concepts etc. Don't you fear that you'll lose some listeners along the way or your message won't be delivered fully? Someone suggested to me that one almost must have a Ph.D in theology to fully grasp the meaning of BE.
Daniel:
No, you have to have a functioning brain, that's all. Ph.D is nothing, it's just a paper. So no I don't care about that [laughs]. I see what you mean, but no, it's nothing that bothers me. For every album you make there are always people that thought, you know, "you should have done this or that", or "hey, why didn't you make another One Hour By The Concrete Lake" or whatever their own favourite album is. And if you start thinking like that, I think that's when you're on dangerous territory, when it comes to creative process. I think you should always, I said this too, but fear is very good. Fear is something that is really important if you're hunted down by a wolf or a pack of bandits. But fear is not the best creative force, fear doesn't make a good songwriter and fear does not make a good producer or anything, so I try to leave Mr. Fear out of basically everything that has to do with anything creative.

Do you use a special formula when making an album? How do you go about making one, does it just flow naturally?
Daniel:
It just flows naturally. It depends on the album. I usually say that as long as you're making music and you're using yourself, like, as long as you're putting yourself into your music, the music will change as long as you're changing. And another way of constantly redefining your relationship to music, I think, is also to change the procedure in which the music is being created. And that happened definitely for the last albums, since we have had so different premises for every different album. But one thing that is always the same, I think… I mean, I can only speak for myself as a composer, but when music comes to me, I live with it for a while, I twist and turn it and sometimes it survives into something that will actually be on an album or at some sort being continued and being finished at some point. Most of it is just passing by. After that it's all up to your own filter. I try to find the perfect form for the music. Somewhere, maybe that's wrong, but somewhere I just have the feeling that every song, every idea, every embryo of a song has a perfect place, a perfect form. And I think that the higher your musical ceiling is, the bigger is the chance that that specific song will reach its ultimate form. I think that every time you fail in finding the ultimate form for musical idea, you have abused the song idea. You have done something to it that was not intended to be. And I think that's what, in my opinion, makes some of the great bands and artists so great. Like every time I listen to The Beatles I can hear so many songs that found their ultimate form. And sometimes when you listen to other music, you can just feel that this was not the soul of the song, it ended up in a wrong way, because someone was trying to reshape it into something that would fit themselves or fit their own form as a band or as an artist. And I try to avoid that as much as possible."

A i naravno,činjenica da je čovjek odbio natući love na USA touru zbog svog vjerovanja u ljudsko dostojanstvo etc,etc.
Ups,going off topic here! Sorry ljudi,dosta Paina....

Uglavnom,mislim da je progressive izgubilo na značenju,da se sve i svašta stavlja u tu košaru,i sasvim mi je razumljivo da oni to odbijaju... Jer ako u istoj rečenici,u istom kontekstu spomenemo i nazovemo Pain of Salvation,Dream Theater,Symphony X,Porcupine Tree,Opeth itd. progressive metalom ,dobijemo dojam da je to sve tu negdje... A to je velika neistina (ma koji god vi band preferirali) i užasno banaliziranje...Zato skroz podržavam D.Gildenlowa i S. Wilsona.


imaš previše slobodnog vremena
I just don't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
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Postby dealer » Mon Oct 06, 2008 0:38

hallowed wrote:Image

...moja greška...trebao sam naglasiti ima li netko za preporučiti neki SLUŠLJIVI bend...


:lol: Jebate, vrijeme je da se odlogiram sa čmara, dječica postaju ipak previše udaljena.
Je li istina nešto o čemu se demokratski odlučuje?

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom to think, which they seldom use.
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Postby čudnoređe » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:00

dealer wrote:Bend koji se bez problema može svrstati u neki "žanr" je bend koji nije vrijedan slušanja.


ne nuzno. gotivim, ali ne trazim pod svaku cijenu da neki bend bude ultra-inovativan.
npr. kad se nabrijavam pred izlazak ili ispuhujem ventile ne cinim to "eclectic progom" (kako su na prog-archives pokusali nazvati jedan zanr u kojem ima dragih mi bendova), vec jednostavnim i lakosvrstljivim bendovima. takva muzika mi pase i kad mi je potrebna podloga za orgije nekontrolirane sprdnje. :D ali zato mi npr. bendovi iz spomenutog "zanra" nevjerojatno imponuju kad se vracam doma (pa ih picim na diskmenu) - nakon loseg izlaska. hehe. ili kao pojacivac percepcije (kad u stanju jake koncentriranosti na glazbu pocinjem tu glazbu primjecivati na pojavama neposredno opazenim u okolini).

...moja greška...trebao sam naglasiti ima li netko za preporučiti neki SLUŠLJIVI bend...


u vremenima dok je metal bio inovacija u glazbi isto tako nije bio od vecine smatran slusljivim...
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Postby hallowed » Mon Oct 06, 2008 15:04

"I begin with the principle that all men are bores. Surely no one will prove himself so great a bore as to contradict me in this."

...neki bi trebali pregledati kod doktora svoj smisao za humor, jer očito nešto nije u redu s njim...
...ako ne filozofiramo u prazno (citiranjem Kierkegaarda ne postaje se pametan), ne znači da smo djeca odmah...
Fuck your systems and fuck your decisions
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Postby Miracle » Mon Oct 06, 2008 15:50

ma ignoriraj ga, vidiš da ga jebu neki opaki kompleksi
Life seems too small when Death takes its toll
I need something to blame for this pain
I try, I fail, I fall, like anyone you know
I break, I bleed, like anyone you know

2B V -2B = ?
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Postby dealer » Mon Oct 06, 2008 22:49

Miracle wrote:ma ignoriraj ga, vidiš da ga jebu neki opaki kompleksi


A u kurac :lol:
Je li istina nešto o čemu se demokratski odlučuje?

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom to think, which they seldom use.
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